Our Mission

Bastard Nation advocates for the civil and human rights of adult citizens who were adopted as children. Millions of North Americans are prohibited by law from accessing personal records that pertain to their historical, genetic and legal identities. Such records are held by their governments in secret and without accountability, due solely to the fact that they were adopted.
Bastard Nation campaigns for the restoration of their right to access their records. The right to know one’s identity is primarily a political issue directly affected by the practice of sealed records adoptions. Please join us in our efforts to end a hidden legacy of shame, fear and venality.

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First Contact: You Have Options


by Denise Castellucci

When you are searching for a birth-relative, eventually you will be faced with the prospect of contacting the person you have been searching for. You have a phone number and/or address, and you are pretty sure this is the person. Now you need to gather up the courage to make first contact, perhaps the scariest thing you will ever do.

When faced with this question, I turned to an adoptee mailing list for advice. I received a large number of E-mail offering conflicting advice. I soon realized that it was a matter of personal choice. There are no wrong answers, and there is no manual in how to proceed so as to insure you will be successful.

I chose the phone, since I am the most comfortable with speaking on the phone. I am drawn to the instant gratification it offers, and I figured that if that would be my first and last contact, I would, at least, be able to hear their voice.


If you choose phone contact, here are things you should keep in mind:

Have a support system set up to be there for you regardless of what happens with the call. They can be victims of your elation, a shoulder to cry on, or a sounding board when you don’t know what to make of the call.

Plan to seat yourself in a place that is comfortable for you and will not have any interruptions or distractions. If you have call waiting on your phone, turn it off before you call. Clear your schedule so you don’t have anywhere to go.

Write down a brief checklist of points you want to get across, and important questions. What do you want out of the call? Don’t make it a script, you will sound like a telemarketer. Don’t expect you will finish the checklist, but it is there in case there is a lull in the conversation.

Have your documentation gathered from your search handy.

Make sure you have a notebook, so you if the call goes well you can write down peoples phone #’s and addresses.

When they answer, verify who you are taking with and make sure they take down your name and number, in case you get cut off they can call you back. If they have to call you back, let the person on the phone know they should call collect (1-800-collect?).

Ask if it is a good time to talk about a personal matter, if no ask when it would be a good time or have them call you when it is a better time.

Ask if your birthdate and birthplace means anything to them, or ask them if a name of a relative or other birthparent name means anything to them. Don’t worry if they don’t react to this information right away, since it is quite possible they will not remember dates. This is a way to approach it in a delicate manner. You may just have to take the direct approach.

If they hang up or say they do not want any contact. You have given them your phone number and a chance to change their minds. This will be pretty tough, but you have, at least, given them a chance by reaching out. If they do not hang up, listen carefully and play it by ear. Make sure they have your contact information, leave things open-ended. Contactees need special consideration because they have not had the time to prepare as you did. It may take sometime before you set a date to meet, or you could be asked to come down the next day.

Anything can happen.

Rejection is not a rejection of you, but a rejection of the idea of revisiting the past. They do not know you, so they cannot reject YOU.

Unless they get cut off mid-sentence, do not call back. This is tough, and there may be those who would disagree. If they have your name and number, the ball is in their court.


I have read so many stories of people, who chose to contact by letter and then had this agonizing wait for a reply. As a neurotic, coffee drinking member of the MTV generation, this would drive me insane. Also, I am the type that would write a novel, overbearing the most patient person, and it would take me forever to compose, further frustrating my need for instant gratification. Not everyone fits my profile, so if you choose this route, keep these things in mind:

All mail should be sent certified and registered, return receipt requested, requiring only the signature and ID of the person you intend the letter to be for. Also, make sure it says “Forwarding Address Requested” so you can find out where they moved to (within a year?) This serves to protect the privacy of the recipient,and give you an idea of when they received the letter.Please note that things can still go awry, and this also can tip off family members that it is a strange letter.

Be short, be real, and give them a reason to be curious. Telling your entire life story, no matter how incredibly compelling and entertaining it is leaves no mystery. Add a representative photo, seeing it may spark recognition and reinforce you are a human being.

If you move around a lot, be sure to include a permanent address and phone of people, who are supportive of you finding. This person may contact you a year or so down the line, or find the lost letter down the line. Make sure you keep in touch with your permanent contact.

Be patient, and know that people can be terrible about responding to mail, and could put off dealing with it for awhile, some don’t. Mail can be lost. The person you are contacting may not be ready to deal with contact at that time. They may be unemployed, going through a divorce or a bad marriage, going through a depression, be a flake, or starting a new job, planning a move, dealing with the death of a family member, starting a new relationship, having problems with family or funds. There are a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with you, and some that have to do with their feelings around relinquishment and possible reunion.


This is a very vogue method of some adoptees, who feel uncomfortable with making contact themselves. It requires absolute trust on the part of the adoptee on the CI, and a willingness of the adoptee to accept that this person maybe the only person to contact the birthfamily member. If the third party botches contact, the adoptee will have to accept the consequences of that and deal wondering ‘what-if’ they had made the contact.

The third party you choose should have experience in making such contacts, or consult someone who is experienced to coach them.

The third party should be clear that they are working at the wish of the adoptee and listen to the preferences of the adoptee.

Communication and trust should be present. There should be a discussion over what should be done in whatever scenario that happens. The adoptee should have control over how the contact happens.

There should be a discussion and understanding about the risks and benefits involved with using a Intermediary.

Don’t let my cautionary tone make you think that what awaits you is rejection. Based on my experience of reading a whole bunch of reunion stories, you are more likely get a positive or guarded reception to initial contact, than rejection. The point is that there are no guarantees. Initial contact is the most scary thing you will ever attempt, but you will never know what you will find, unless you try.



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 Turn One Baby Into 55,000 Babies!

X-Sender: yurpal@nowhere.net

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 15:36:21 -0500

To: rhyzome@1bastards.free.zone

From: Don Williams

Subject: TURN ONE BABY INTO 55,000 BABIES!!!

Turn One Baby Into 55,000 Babies!!! It Really Works Please Read This!!


Taking 5 minutes to read this text may be one of the best decisions potential adoptive parents will ever make.

Unlike many adoptees, my name is not important. What is important is what happened to me.

On 9 January 1995, I saw an article in an Internet Newsgroup telling me I could have 55,000 babies within 4 weeks for an investment of only one baby! I thought it was a huge joke! I spoke to my adoption attorney and friends about it and they thought likewise. But after three days of desperate struggle in court to get another baby, I decided I had nothing to lose.

My family and I in desperation, grasped at straws and sent one baby by snail mail to one of 5 names and addresses specified in the article. We then placed our own name and address in the article and posted it in 200 other newsgroups.

Two weeks later, I started receiving babies in the mail! I could not believe it! Hundreds of babies turned into thousands, and in the 4 weeks, I received a total of 57,883 babies. They came from all over the world. Sure, they all weren’t HWIs…but that’s not point. They were all babies!!!

If you follow the 3 steps below, there is no reason whatsoever why the same shouldn’t happen to you. This is a perfectly legitimate adoption opportunity. You invest one baby and you receive a return on your investment. So does the next investor. NOT ILLEGAL, NOT A CHAIN LETTER – PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE (unlike the babies)! If you don’t have a baby of your own, grab one from your neighbors when they aren’t looking. There’s nothing illegal about that!


The procedure is very simple.

STEP 1. Write your name and address on 5 separate pieces of paper with the words “PLEASE ADD ME TO YOUR BABY LIST”. Stick a baby in a box (please use sufficient padding) and mail them to the one of following five addresses:


2. U.R. Sick, 6969 UNHAPPY WAY, PITTSBURGH, PA 15266 USA


4. C.U. Later, P O BOX 733, ALLIGATOR 2030, SOUTH AFRICA

5. G.I. Stink, P.O.Box 2663, Cesspool, Florida 33586

STEP 2. Now remove the 1st name on the list, move the other 4 names up (5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3 etc) and put your name and address as number 5 on the list. You can do this by re-typing this article or simply editing and re-posting it in this or another newsgroup.

STEP 3. Post your amended article to at least 200 new groups (there are over 20,000 of them).

You are now in the Baby Investment Business and you will start receiving babies by mail within a week or two. The more newsgroups you post to, the more babies you will get. You may want to rent a Post Office Box to handle the volume of babies you are likely to receive.

If you wish to remain anonymous, you can use a pseudonym such as “The Mom” or “The Dad”, but make sure your address is correct!


Of every 200 postings I made, I received an average of 5 replies, YES – ONLY 5, each with a baby enclosed. You make five babies for every 200 postings WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 5.

Each person who sent you a baby, now also makes let’s say,only 200 additional postings WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 4, i.e. 1000 postings. On average therefore, 50 people will send you a baby with your name at number 4. You make 50 babies!!!

Your 50 new agents make 200 posting each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 3 or 10,000 postings – average return 500 at one baby each is 500 babies. They make 200 postings each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 2 = 100,000 postings = 5,000 returns at one baby each = 5,000 babies!!!

Finally, 5,000 people make 200 postings each WITH YOUR NAME AT NUMBER 1 and you get a return of 50,000 babies before you name drops off the list. AND THAT’S IF EVERYONE DOWN THE LINE ONLY MAKES 200 POSTINGS! Total babies in one cycle = 55,500.

From time to time, when your name is no longer on the list, you take the latest posting that is appearing in the newsgroups, SEND OUT ANOTHER BABY TO THE NAMES THAT ARE ON THE LIST, PUT YOUR NAME IN AT NUMBER 5 AND START POSTING AGAIN. Remember, 200 postings is only a guideline. The more you post, the greater the return.

Let’s review the reasons why you should do this: THE ONLY COST FACTORS ARE STAMPS, A BOX, AND A BABY. Anyone can afford a baby to put into such an effortless investment with SPECTACULAR RETURNS.

Some people have said to me “What happens if the scheme is ‘played out’ and no one sends me any babies?” Big deal! So you lose a single baby – but what are the chances of that happening?

Do you realise how many Internet Users there are? Do you realise how many times this scheme can be utilised over and over again – with COMPLETELY NEW people participating?


Remember, read the instructions carefully and play FAIRLY…that’s the only way this will work. Get a printout so you can refer back to this article easily.

Try to keep a list of everyone that sends you a baby and always keep an eye on the newsgroup postings to make sure everyone is playing fairly. You know where your name should be.




Celesta Zone



Here are some of the “greatest hits” of that on-line pro-closed adoption, anti-open records dynamo and Disney fan (and herald of the AntiChrist): The Divine Celesta!!!

The Circle of Life


Under protest:”I’ve had all I can stands, and I can’t stands no more!

Celeste discovers killfiles



LET MY CHILDREN GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Bastard Nation – A state Bargaining

My story for those who even care…

[The author of these has asked to remain anonymous, but I have the author’s permission to post them.]

The Circle Of Life…

I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Deuteronomy 30:19

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward. As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth. Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them.

Psalms 127:3-5

We live in a time when people don’t seem to know, don’t want to know, or have forgotten, right from wrong. Morality is said to be relative, subjective rather than objective. The bible is viewed by many to be a book of arbitrary rules written for another time, another place, another people, and their peculiar sense of ethics.

In reality, the bible is a book of life. What leads to life, and what leads to death. What is wise, and what is foolish. what is love, and what is hate. The God of the bible is life, love, and wisdom. His antithesis is death, hate, and foolishness.

The original meaning for the Hebrew word for sin literally means `missing the mark.’ When we sin we miss the mark. We fall short of God’s plan for us. We all miss the mark in some way. Often times it may not be our fault. Such is the case in birth defects, such as homosexuality. Making the mark, hitting the bullseye, in sex, results in new life. A child. This is what the God of the cosmos, the life force, our higher power, had in mind when he created life through nature and evolution. Anything less misses the mark, and is what the ancient Hebrews called `sin.’ It is `imperfect’ which in Hebrew literally means `immature,’ not fully evolved, less than intended. X and Y sperms are like arrows. When they hit their mark, the egg, a new life is created. A boy, XY. Or a girl XX. I don’t know why God chose evolution to create the world, but it seems obvious he did. Due to the nature of evolution, not all arrows hit their mark. It is estimated that 250 million sperms (roughly the population of the United States) compete to fertilize one egg. The fact that we exist at all instead of one of 250 million alternates, is like winning the lottery. Our birth was a divine accident, our death most likely will be too. God’s plan is to bring forth life, and to bring it forth abundantly. To achieve his aims, he doesn’t carry all his eggs in one basket. We are here to live, to love, to wonder, to enjoy the miracle of life, to survive and pass our genes on to the next generation so that they may do the same. Not all of us will make it, but due to the astronomical numbers involved, enough will. This is the circle of life.

It Isn’t Just My Right

Even My Left Will Be Divine…

We live in a time of political polarization. The term `Politically Correct’ came into vogue in the 1990’s, to differentiate the left-wing, democratic agenda from that of the right-wing republican agenda which was, by inference, `Politically Incorrect.’

What the left failed to remember, was that Americans historically think of them selves as revolutionaries, rebels etc. Consequently, no one wanted to be `correct.’ Everybody wants to be an outlaw, a cowboy, the kind your mama is supposed to not let you grow up to be. And so we have a TV show called `Politically Incorrect’ with a decidedly `politically correct’ host. And so the label failed.

In retrospect, it is laughable that the left thought the label could ever succeed. This was due in part to the left wings myopic misunderstanding that most everyone (except those evil republicans) are as obsessed with group acceptance as they are. This is especially true of media celebrities who, got where they are in the first place because of their neurotic need for attention and applause, and champion every fashionable cause.

And so I would suggest the label `Politically Chic’ as being more representative of the so-called politically correct agenda.

God is not chic, or fashionable. He is eternal. The same yesterday today and forever. The Bible reflects this. What is hip with God is what leads to life, more life, better life, life abundant. So consequently, God’s agenda can be found on the right and left of the political spectrum, so unfortunately can his antithesis. To sort this all out requires what the ancients, called `gnosis’ a Greek word meaning knowledge. Only this kind of knowledge is not found in universities. It’s the same kind of knowledge, the Bible refers to when it says `Adam knew Eve his wife.’ It is intimate knowledge of God born of relationship with him. This is not a sexual relationship, but rather its spiritual counterpart.

If one has `gnosis’ one knows right from wrong. One knows that life, love, and wisdom are good. And that death, hatred, and foolishness are evil.

I’m Working On My Roar…

Starting Block: The Transformative Experience:

There are two aspects of transformation: personal transformation and planetary transformation.

Personal transformation (or being `born again’) hinges on one’s personal recognition of oneness with God, humanity, and the universe.

Planetary transformation is brought about as a `critical mass’ of personally transformed individuals takes socio-political responsibility for the world of humankind.

For God so loved the cosmos, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16


+ The Adoption Advocacy Newsgroup – For Pro-adoption Advocates! +

+ +

+ Submission address for submitting articles to +

+ alt.support.adoption.advocacy (MODERATED!) +

+ +

+ adoption@netexpress.net +

+ +

+ Direct questions & comments to: +

+ +

+ Moderator celeste@netexpress.net +




Posted: January 23,1995 11:01:57



They believe in putting the birthfamilies rights over the adoptee’s. And everyone else, and are trying to pass that off as equal treatment.

They believe in placing adopted children in sub-standard homes, that will be the only resource left by the time they are through, for payment. (baby sitters, instead of adoptive parents)

Catholic Charities has figured out what side the bread is buttered on. The Tax payers–revenue and increased United Way funding. They have alot to gain by advocating government coerced take over of all (not just adoptive)families. Non-profit is a figment of the imagination–there is no such thing as a free lunch. Increased services, increased pay checks.

They believe in the Government takeover and intrusion in the private lives of American families–The Government is trying to reach its hand into your house. First they tell you how to raise your children, and next they tell you, if you tell your child to believe in GOD that you are lieing to them, and that is abuse, or lacking “candor”.


The Anti-christ is the union of these organizations: The organizations — the Child Welfare League of America, Catholic Charities USA, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Adoption Congress, Concerned United Birthparents, the National Adoption Center, the Adoption Exchange Association, Children Awaiting Parents, and the Joint Council on International Children’s Services —

These organizaitions are joining together to take over our children, our homes, our country and our freedom. We must stop them. They are goose-stepping laughing hyaenas /Nazis after our Great country and OUR freedoms.

Our congressman and senators must be notified to see to it the Uniform Adoption Act passes, which will be a LOUD NO to adoption reform! This Act. is scheduled to be voted on in every State this year.

Advocate for Adoption, Advocate for Our Families and Freedom

Thank you,

Celeste, Member of LAMB (the League of Adoptive Mothers and Babies)


From: celestmp@xnet.com (Celeste)

Newsgroups: alt.adoption

Subject: Under protest:”I’ve had all I can stands, and I can’t stands no more!”

Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:46:08 -0500

Message-ID: <celestmp-1509951246080001@celestmp.xnet.com>

NNTP-Posting-Host: celestmp.xnet.com

I haven’t mailed the following correspondence to my State’s Attorney as yet, but if Prodigy does not immediately make amends to me for this total and complete unfairness with the total and complete restoration of my account (and an HUGE APOLOGY!), no later than Monday, September 18, 1995, I plan to. Also a copy will be mailed to the National Council For Adoption! I have done everything I possibly can to settle this peacefully, out of court and outside legal channels. Let this serve as a warning that I mean business! And as for all of you on newsgroups who oppose me, I am not one bit afraid of your very bias and descriminatory scrutiny, the busy bodies who I complain about at Prodigy, themselves stick their noses up at you also, believe they are above you with reproach, that you all are beneath them in reputation, intelligence! (or shall I very blatantly say IQ?!) In otherwords, they think they are too good for you too! They think this group is the equivalent of, bathroom literature or shall I say, toilet paper in cyberspace! So consider that for a momment, before you defend them!

One last warning for Patty Bybee and any other of my adversaries who’d like to try me unfairly ever again: If you post anything about me publicly which is libelous or slander here or anywhere else, I will not hesitate to mail this letter and file a consumer complaint, I will be dragging all of your friends into court, post haste! Your “little file” will get you no where Patty! If I were you, I’d be very careful not to cross yours truly again!)

As Popeye the Sailor Man would say, “I’ve had all I can stands, and I can’t stands no more!”. Enjoy this interesting reading! (VVVBG)

(The following are excerpts from Celeste’s letter to the Attorney General of the state of Illinois re. her being kicked off the Prodigy adoption BB.)

Allso during that time, the board experienced a tremendous amount of growth, of which one member who is a Prodigy Special Contributor, Jean Van Horn, credited me for helping to make this growth possible by my participation, which I received a very loving thank you from her in writing via e*mail correspondence.

I would like to inform you that I was being publically slandered on the bb in February of this year by Linda Anne Babb and Patty Bybee both current official board representatives, employed by Prodigy, in which I have all the necessary proof I need to take to court and file suit against Ms. Babb, Ms. Bybee and the Prodigy Service jointly. I was also verbally and emotionally abused over a period of months by other members participating on the bulletin board, including the current board leader Diana Olnick (at which time she was not yet the adoption forum board leader). The only possible reason I have to explain this would be that I having differing opinions on the issue of adoption, and that I am the adoptive mother of two “healthy white infants” in “closed adoptions”, which I advocate the continued lawful freedom of choice for both birth parents and adoptive parents, which they hold tremendous amount of bias towards and descriminate against.

When Diana Olnick was hired as the Adoption bulletin board learder in late May or early June, 1995. Within days of her leadership she began publically censor and embarrass me by playing “grammer teacher” to my postings, emotional abuse equivalent of making one stand in a corner with a “dunce hat” on, and then when I spoke up in defense of myself, she had me temporarily or permanently barred from the bulletin board, I am not sure which because they have not notified me as to my status, if I will ever be allowed to participate again in the future.

How long does Prodigy management intend to keep me barred from the adoption bb? If I am not ever allowed to return, it would seem to me then, that Prodigy should reimburse me for my entire investment for both accounts. Therefore, I want my account CSLK44A reinstated immediately with permission to utilize the adoption bb, or financial reimbursment for my total investment (of approx. $1200 to $1400) for both accounts JPAE99A and CSLK44A, for my participation which began last November to the present September, 1995. I have made every attempt to settle this matter peacefully with Prodigy Management without having to pursue legal remedies, including a final request (copy enclosed) to reinstate my membership status, along with mention of possible legal action, to Jenny Ambrozek (XRJJ24B), Manager of BB Operations, to no avail. Attached is my formal consumor complaint and application for seeking your assistence in this matter. Thank you

Sincerely, Celeste


 Celeste Discoves Killfiles!






Time: 03/06 11:48 AM

I have been doing too good of a job, I guess, in getting the truth our about adoption reform–now I have recieved a death threat on the internet:

Newsgroups: alt.adoption

From: balding@netcom.com (Jerry Emery Ming) Subject: Celesta Piliponis at XNet

Congradulations, Celesta. While Ungratefull has his Richard Cranium award, I have awarded you a cherished position in my killfile.

BellaDonna, I have to admit that you have a stronger stomach than I. Keep’em honest Beautifull Lady.


Patty B…

“That Pesky Cub Member”

Followed by this on alt.adoption:

[1] What’s the matter, truth gotcha worried?

celestmp@xnet.com – 03/06/1995

What’s the matter? The TRUTH gotcha worried?

I will assume you are only joking, but just in case your not___what good will it do NOW? The truth is already been exposed. If anyone were to do anything to me, all that would do is bring more attention to it–>THE TRUTH. (plus, my local police department has already been alerted to possible threats against me, and they will KNOW right where to look).

not to get caught in the stampede,



Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,




TIME: 11/12/94 11:36 AM




One objective for time-out, besides allowing time to calm down, is to take the audience or attention away from a tantruming child. Once they no longer have an audience, they soon calm down and have time to rethink how they can get what they are after, since their tantrum doesn’t seem tobe achieving their goal. It might not always be necessary tolock the door, but occasionally a child might challenge your ability to enforce them to stay in the bedroom. Without a lock they can open the door and continue their illegal bid for attention.

In older homes, their is often skeleton locks, or better (and safer) a small flimsy hook- and-eye latch could be used, mainly to deter the child from opening the door until they calm down. Yes, such a latch could be torn off with the right amount of force by a particularly stiff necked child, but some or most children might not go that far. I agree if a child might hurt themselves you wouldn’t leave them alone, but in most cases a child will discontinue that kind of behavior once they have lost their audience.




TIME: 11/13/94 11:36 AM




Hi Lorri, I have a degree in child development, have worked in the daycare industry for eight years, have two boys of my own, I am currently doing foster care, and I am also doing research, but on the subject of sending children to their bedrooms and whether or not that is effective, and whether or not it is o.k. for parents to sometimes use a lock on the door for it to be more effective. Many children do not require much more than simple guidance techniques for them to get along, develope a conscience and learn right and wrong. Wouldn’t it be nice if all kids were so easy to raise. But, I have a feeling without our more high spirited youngsters, man kind would not be where it is today. Were not perfect and never will be, but we must strive to be the best we possible can. I believe that one day, slowly but surely, we will evolute to a time when violence will no longer be necessary. But, we haven’t come that far. Things are improving with each generation. I do feel it is to soon for Child Welfare experts to demand parents not spank their children. Children do not just learn violence from their parents spanking them. Even parents who don’t spank their children, have children who are hitting others as a means of getting their own way. They learn violence in many other ways, and to some extent violence is a part human nature.

Through other forms of research I have done, I have found that children, not all but many, who aren’t being spanked, or properly given guidance from their parents, are abusing their parents. They are disrespectful, they hit their parents, they won’t do what they are told and are out of control. And, they are not just this way at home, they take this behavior with them, to school and everywhere they go. We have a generation of bullys coming up, they are not developing a conscience. I don’t know, what are parents to do? There is this mass witch hunt for child abusers, it is interfering with well meaning parents ability to raise there own children to be well-adjusted adults. Parents are afraid more than ever to discipline their kids.

I have been researching other methods of discipline that could replace spanking, or at least reduce the need for it. I do believe we need to wean ourselves off of the use of violence. Face it, some children are more stiffed necked or troubled than others, and if they are not taught right and wrong, they cause problems for our entire society, not to mention personal and family problems. It is these children we need to find answers for. Until society, eliminates other avenues in which children are learning violent behavior, such as television violence, video games, pornography etc., they cannot eliminate the option of corporal punishment from parents. Violence is to profitable, and attractive, I don’t see it going away anytime soon. Do you? Our Presidents themselves can’t seem resist the temptation of playing war games, which is what every war dating back at least since WW II has really been all about. Most wars in a sense could easily have been judged unnecessary, they could have been solved through peaceful means. But, we continue even today to have unnecessary wars! I believe men like to play with their toy soldiers. My conclusion is, try if you can, not to spank, but don’t be afraid to. And, most important we need to work on eliminating other more powerful forms of violence, if we want to achieve a less violent society.







Time: 02/13/96 6:33 PM

Kim, you said:

” The needs of the majority is more important than one individual. ”

It’s a good thing Lincoln didn’t feel that way. Majority rule can lead to tyranny in many instances. My philosophy has always been to TRY to save or include everyone in the boat.

Just my 2 cents, Celeste


From: celestmp@xnet.com (Celesta)

Newsgroups: alt.adoption

Subject: Re: CELESTA

Date: Fri, 24 Mar 1995 06:52:09 -0600

Organization: XNet – A Full Service Internet Provider – (708) 983-6064

Message-ID: celestmp-2403950652090001@celestmp.xnet.com

References: celestmp-2303951222380001@celestmp.xnet.com 9503240124181157@dojo.cts.com

Why is it when you people ask someone a question, you can not ask politely? And if you don’t ask politely…why the hell should any one bother to answer you?

I have already said what my status is a zillion times:




If you could only see the lives these poor children lead; animals got it better than they do in most cases. That I will not shut up about.

LET MY CHILDREN GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ga 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,



[2] Celesta’s Mental State

from: celestmp@xnet.com

**MaBarkerDonna (Nightshade) wrote that she is:

* ” a single college student living in a one bedroom apartment and subsisting on grant money and a part-time job ” **

So where is your credentials to “diagnose” people as “crazy”? Even a ” REAL ” professional would not have the ‘gall’ to say they can diagnose a person from a few political ideas and views a person has posted on an internet newsgroup!

And you say you know better than people who have very thoroughly checked me out? And there was only one person — my license rep — that tried to say I had a ” mental condition because of my adversarial opinions with the department ” , and He was proven to be mistaken, by professionals who have actually seen, met and talked with me. OPINIONS are not evidence of a mental condition! Especially, when in Washington and Springfield thousands are voicing the SAME OPINION — that ” the System is a mess, it’s not working! ”

You can’t judge a person’s mental fitness by their political ideas, insights and views! (Or even their religious views! You can’t claim that everyone who believes in the supernatural is crazy! You would be labeling, and ” demonizing ” some 80- 90% of the human population of the entire world!)

Furthermore, if you knew my license rep, and stood me and him side by side…you would see for yourself, that HE is the one who is REALLY WEIRD! This guy is divorced because he is ‘married’ to his work, he is a loner and reclusive. He is the type that wants to work on Friday night at 7:00 pm, when everyone elso has gone home. Everyone I know, even his co-workers, say he has a strangely, dry humor and they get the feeling there is something not quite right about him. He has called me and hung up, a number of times when I had just got out of meetings with him in which I made him look bad, and pissed him off. How did I know it was him? Caller ID! No, HE was projecting, as many of you are. It is not *I* with the problem. It IS because I disagree with you, it is because I will boldly call it like I see it, and don’t tip toe around on egg shells. It is funny how those in glass houses are the first to throw stones!

** This is a DEFENSE of her ” mental fitness ” ?? Some defense. Looks to me like the system isn’t as bad off as I had originally thought!**

The system is what is not mentally fit! My sister and I were just talking yesterday about how when we went to college how it seemed that those studying ” pyschology ” were in it to figure out what was wrong with themselves! Many of the social welfare professions are draws for people who have had ‘personal experiences’ that drew them into it to ” change the system “. This is what is wrong with the system…it is full of people who come from dysfunctional backgrounds. Oh yes, ‘sane’ people flow into it for a job. But those kind never stay in it more than two years, before they realize that it is full of weird, brainwashed fanatics and inhumane policies that stress callousness and ” don’t care too much “. The social welfare field has amoung the highest turnover and burn-out rates going! Just check into it, you’ll see that I am right!

**I don’t say that you’re crazy just to shut you up, as you seem to think. Has it ever occured to you that I haven’t got any ” agenda ” , that I’m not part of a conspiracy, and that I say you’re crazy because I think you’re crazy? There are plenty of people that I wish would shut up whom I don’t label as lunatics. Every post you write tells me that you are a nutter.**

Oh yes you do call me crazy to shut me up, possibly you do it to make others not listen to me, and you might as well quit because it isn’t working. You see, people believe who they want to believe, they don’t change their minds unless from ‘personal experiences’ that they have themselves. So what you say, only reinforces those who believe as you do. What I say, only reinforces those who believe as I do. This is a ” war on words ” . the target being to reach those who haven’t made up the minds as yet, or to reach those who already agree with our views.

I have labeled ‘an agenda’, ” the Birthparents Rights Movement ” , which IS a mass movement, as anti-adoption…for very good reason. Yes it is an agenda! And you know it! If you don’t know it, then you are un/misinformed! It is you that uses the word “conspiracy”..I have never used that word, I don’t think of it that way. I do believe that people are (re)acting — in mass — on beliefs they hold to be true. Conspiracy implies that they intended an evil plot or something, I don’t believe anyone is really evil, but the evil they unintentionally or indirectly cause is another thing.

” Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom from unlawful search and seizure (of our children!!!)…goes on and on…. ”

** But you are a FOSTER PARENT – they AREN’T ” your ” children! If I understand correctly, a foster home is supposed to be a TEMPORARY home where children stay while their PARENTS get their act together, or until the child is surrendered for adoption. Don’t you understand that FOSTER CHILDREN ARE *NOT* THE SAME AS ADOPTIVE CHILDREN, and FOSTER PARENTS ARE NOT THE SAME AS ADOPTIVE PARENTS!!! How much clearer can I possibly make it?? **

You missed my point all but completely, but if a foster parent has their ” own children ” the foster care system has access to ‘THEM’ as well, not to mention your home, without a warrant! That is why I would highly advise anyone with children (especially adopted children) to NOT do foster care until after their own children are raised! Like I said, some of these people are dysfunctional, there is no telling the trouble they may cause INNOCENT, far too trusting and unsuspecting people!

Even still, with foster children…it is not right that they can take these children alone into rooms and grill them without anyone present, and remove them without a hearing! (Even with the elderly, they are not allowed to question and remove them from their homes in this way. But the elderly have had AARP to lobby for them and ensure their rights.) You would not believe the abuses to these children as a result of these types of ” unconstitutional ” policies! Dogs are being treated better than foster children. Foster parents are treated as though they are slave labor.



Newsgroups: alt.adoption

Subject: Re: Bastard Nation – A state Bargaining

Date: 15 Jun 1996 03:38:11 GMT

In 4psep0$ik7@newsbf02.news.aol.com celest920@aol.com (Celest920) writes:

An adopted child WAS ‘given birth’ by another not married (usually), but IS ” born to ” the adoptive parents who are married.



alt.adoption 04 July 1995

Subject: My story for those who even care…

In article <celestmp-0207951407130001@celestmp.xnet.com>,

celestmp@xnet.com (Celeste Piliponis) writes:

I am an adoptive parent and I have a foster license. Last year I was one month shy of being eligible to adopt my foster daughters, when DCFS refused to return them to me from respite care. Coincidentally, I was in the process of license renewel.- I had a small hook and eye latch on the girls room door to keep my 2 year old son, who has ADD, out of their room because he was breaking all their things. I believe the whole issue was about adoption. They say the exact same rhetoric about adoption as I hear in this and other forums. I have been saying this for months.

This is the reason 500,000 are living their entire childhoods in foster care.

My foster daughters have been moved twice since they left my home and they are still in foster care. They move them around to keep them from attaching to anyone,

—>and to keep anyone from eligibility to adopt them.<—

Amanda, my foster daughter would watch Disney Movies, she was such a romantic and would sing the theme songs to these movies, she had a beautiful voice. Her favorite was Little Mermaid, and she loved the songs, “I Want to Go Where the People Are” and “A Whole New World” in the Aladdin Movie.

It is through these I realized what Amanda wanted most, what her dreams are. I think she is still wanting this and accross the miles some how she is letting me know this by influencing me and telling me how to fight this through the Disney movies.

I believe Amanda is like “the little mermaid” trapped in the system. Another thing is that Amanda and my older son became very close, as close as a brother and sister can be, and he still says quite often that he wants Amanda to come home. That was his birthday wish this year. ——-> My younger son thinks DCFS has killed them. <——-

Oh well, I guess all of you just simply don’t care as long as you get what you want. Go ahead, make fun, put me down, laugh, have your jollies for the day at my expense.


alt.adoption: Why did the chicken cross the road



Subject: The Chicken Runs IV (Final Chapter)

Message-id: <stevewhite-8DEF24.13421331102000@uchinews.uchicago.edu>

The final chapter?


 KUMOM3:  Clearly….the chicken was coerced…it’s obvious, by light of my truth, that the only way a chicken would cross the road, if indeed there was a road, that unbiased counseling…or the lack thereof…woulds educe that poor hapless chicken into crossing the road….so to speak.

Besides, until it actually crosses the road, the double line, that chicken is only thinking about it…so therefore it is not yet a chicken….it is a prospective chicken.. but I digress….go read my posts… and it will suddenly be made clear to you….that some people don’t care about the chicken….but only the eggs, the grade A’s,because it is all about YOU….go read my posts and THEN come back to ME and tell ME about personal integrity.

RUPA: I don’t know if the chicken crossed the road or not, and until the c chicken is here to give us her version of the story, I would not care to speculate on her motives. The chicken has not asked us for advice and I don’t think we should offer it; I would like to assume that the chicken is an adult chicken, capable of rational thought and decision-making on her own. The chicken could very well have crossed the road, after considering the best interests of all concerned. Or not.

 MARLEY: Why the fuck would the chicken want to cross the road anyway?

 DI: I don’t know if the chicken actually did cross the road. We are going to have an inquiry. If the chicken did not, in fact cross the road, there will be an apology for coming, I assure you. We’ve already referred this to the High Hen who will shortly intervene.

 MAS: The chicken was obviously drugged and henceforth forced to cross theroad. You realize don’t you that the high hormones levels immediately after a chicken lays an egg prevents it from making any rational decisions about crossing the road, according to our expert ornithologist.

VERONICA: The chicken didn’t cross the road, I killed it and ate it.Don’t you see the feathers sticking out of my mouth? That is what Lizard Queens do, you know. It was exquisite, by the way, perfect with my room tempurature Merlot. The candles on the table (Duncan Phyfe, of course), reflected beautifully on my laquered sporks.

 SUSAN DYNE: I ran over the fucking chicken, it never got across theroad.

 BILL PIERCE: The non-maritally pregnant chicken chose to cross the road and lay her eggs in privacy. Even though the farmer perhaps did not have the authority to promise the chicken confidentiality regarding hern on-maritally conceived eggs we should respect her right to privacy and seal egg records.

 DON: I ran down that fucking chicken, and you should have seen the ATV I used to do it. It was going to be Al Gore’s chicken in every pot anyway.I don’t give a rat’s ass, so fucking get over it.

LINDA F: That’s a good question, and I can find the reference for that.In the meantime, standing, cheering and clapping!

 LISA-BOO’S HUSBAND STEVE: I don’t give a shit why, just cook the damned thing.

 ELDIE: The chicken is perfectly free to want whatever it wants. It need not inflict its wants on any other barnyard creature if it thinks it would somehow be a bad thing to do. But the very fact that it feels compelled to cross the road is further evidence of the very high price it has paid for the advice it received from all those unethical, egg-clutching farmers.

 DUCKSTER: This chicken was not satisfied with itself, so it crossed. Itwas unsure of its own correctness, so it learned many things crossing the road. Quack.

 PLAYROY: The chicken obviously crossed the road to thank me for letting its eggs cross….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 GHOULAGIRL: Because I aimed the Evil Mind Ray and willed it to cross.The chicken is merely an incubator for those eggs. The chicken crossed he road in order to abandon the eggs on the other side. Then the chicken recovered from all the hormones and drugs given to it during the egg-laying and said “where the fuck is my egg?” And I said, “Hey, YOU’RE t the one who contacted the farmer and BEGGED him to take that egg off your wings. Did you sign papers? You did? Well then, shut the fuck up about it already.”

 PALMS2PINES: Everyone knows that the chicken crossed the road merely toform open, loving and fully committed relationships with any eggs thatmay have been lovingly placed on the other side, pursuant to awell-reasoned and fully developed plan. The chicken’s crossing of the road was done legally, morally and ethically and the chicken received unbiased counseling before deciding to cross. It is my belief that anychickens who choose to make the crossing will, ultimately, be embracedby the very eggs they laid, and will work on their issue together, if in fact any arise. What was the question again?

MEMZOO / ELIZABETH: Chickens are known to cross roads. Much research hasbeen conducted as to why. Here is a link to a web site with more information on this subject: http://chickencrossings.why/. If the chicken in questions did cross the road, most certainly she should have done so only after extensive research into roads, traffic conditions,weather conditions, laws regarding jaywalking and the odds of actually making it to the other side. Anything less would constitute impulsivity,which is grounds for legal action by drivers of vehicles on that particular road. Any additional questions should be referred to my attorney. No..wait. I am an attorney.

 JEANNETTE: Fuck you bitch, I’m the chicken and I’ll cross the roadwhenever and however I damn well please.

 JACKIE: i have been thinking … that chicken … that road … I love this discussion.

JUROL/JULIA: I think this chicken is right to cross the road. Whenpeople find out I have 8 chickens, the inevitable question is “Wow – howcan you afford to keep them in corn?” That isn’t a feed-relatedquestion, just a query about the assumed expenses of having chickens these days. I am staggered by what some people seem to think isnecessary to spend on seed and water and indulging (IMO) their chickens.

Can’t say how tasty my chickens are likely to be, but I wouldn’t take the sizes of their future omelets as an indication of whether ornot they’d enjoyed crossing the road. Could be they just decide on other priorities in their Frank Purdue-shortened lives. Or perhaps they are just turkeys.

 JESSICA DeBABBLES: Um, like, um, the chicken crossed the road cause like adoption is way bad. I know this cause that’s what they say in the soaps. I think us kids should live with old people, like guys or guardians. I’m dig gin on being militant, and like I can wear my hair big again and like crawl around malls and stuff…what were we talking about? Oh adoption. It like sucks. That’s why I formed my own group against adoption, because I believe so much in something that doesn’t actually affect my life any. OK, so maybe I’m also trying to make up for not getting elected class president or homecoming queen. It wasn’t fair! I am much prettier than the other girls! I should have been homecoming queen! I’ll show them – I’ll make a club and THEY can’t join, so THERE! What were we talking about again?

 LORI CARANGELO: The chicken crossed the road because it was promised free medical care on the other side. That was a lie. The chicken was told that in crossing the road it would have six months to change its mind and return to the original roadside. That was a lie. The truth is the chicken was duped by society, its parents, the road crew filling potholes on that day, and, most importantly, the chickens on the other side of the road beckoning. Road crossings are EVIL and should be banned. No chicken should *ever* be allowed to walk across, fly across,ride a bike across. And that so-called “road”? It was just a filthy dirt path. Another LIE. I hate lies. I HATE chickens who cross ROADS. I HATE myself.

[ special note for Lori’s: it should be repeated 6 times with minor word changes in the last two sentences ]

 BARB MORRA: that chicken crossed the road to sit on the teen-agechickens eggs. that chicken took hormones in order to breast feed thosechicks that aren’t hers. she has CLODKNOCKERS she is an evil chickenthat wants to behave “as if” those chicks belong toher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! those chicks don’t belong to her! they belong to me! I mean they belong to the teen-age chicken that was abused by the rooster. visit my website where i have displayed my interpretation of the teen-age chicken’s uterus.

 PATTY B: The chicken crossed the road because it couldn’t find what itwas looking for by doing a google search.

 ELISA WHATSHERNAME: The chicken crossed the road to build a nest out of the 500,000 copies of my book, “Confessions of a Lost Chicken”, that  I have been trying to sell on Amazon.com.

MARLA: Hey, I’m just an egg. It’s not my fault. I have no idea how Igot to the other side of the road. Because of adoption, I’m supposedlyHard Boiled, Runny, or even Scrambled. Actually, I’m SunnySide up,although I have an occasional sulphur problem. This fowl habit may be by nature, or nurture, but no matter what, it’s not my fault. Dr. Laura can decide who’s to blame.

 GENTLE READER: Fowl play in Hell-A. What A-list movie staaah is soonto be hitched, having twins, but just can’t seem to keep his, er, ducksin a row? Word has it that short, dark and handsome left his owngrowing brood in NYC, for a fling with a gal of a different feather…

Eyewitness reports have this godfather of cinema flinging his latest bird *across the road* in a fit of passion. Literally, sweeties! Wonder if the missus-to-be will be cancelling their vacation…

 GENTLE READER (ALTERNATIVE): That fucking chicken can take some responsibility for crossing the fucking road as an adult, or just fuckoff for fuck’s sake.

 GENTLE READER (ALTERNATIVE 2): Honey, that chicken was gay, gay, gay!

Quelle shock! That chicken is well known for her whoring and partying.

Can you guess what other roads she’s been seen crossing lately? If she were a rooster she’d be such a horndog.

 NOUSER: The chicken crossed the road because she wanted.

NU: not a chicken.


 SUE T: Oh My. Did any of you actually see this chicken actually cross that road? If not, then the word ‘allegedly’ was erroneously missing from your previous post.

If in fact, some one were to step forward saying that they did in fact witness the crossing of said road by the chicken in question, then I would have to ask more questions of and about the supposed witness to the alleged crossing. For example, was said witness ever party to anidentifited or private adoption situation in any capacity? If so , I would hope that no- one here would take their testimony as gospel.

And most critical to the situation at hand is the interplay betweenthose who love this chicken, on both sides of the well traveled road. I can only hope that this chicken, newly crossed over, would not assume that he has left behind all that was on the old side of the road. He may try to, and may even be coaxed into trying to let go of the other side of the road, by the chickens who love him, on the new side of the road .

HELEN: Whose chicken crossed the road because she had been told NOT TO!However this was no thick chick. She was cute enough to Riverdance her way across, thus bringing the traffic to a standstill. All the other chickens who had already made it to the other side joined her in a mad whirl of stomping feet and flying feathers.They have been booked for a U.S. tour which is to culminate in a mini-series successfully bid for by Fronda Lemming, of Green Cheese Productions, who NEVER puts all her eggs in one basket, preferring to lay a little one here, a little one there. This HRT* keeps them all in line, knowing they can be stuffed and replaced any time.

 ADOPTADAD: The chicken crossed the road because there are over 500,000waiting children right here in our country. The chicken considered crossing earlier in the day because older children need homes, too. However, traffic was too heavy and problems with older children in foster care are greatly eggs-aggerated. The chicken waited a few hours for traffic to subside because caring for older children does not involve the diaper changes and the 2:00 a.m. feedings infant adoptions require. By, mid afternoon the chicken felt sure she could safely cross the road and did so to get over to the diner for the dinner special,prepared by a happy, well adjusted adult who had been adopted from foster care as a young boy. As the chicken gulped her dinner with glee,she squawked, “There are over 500,000 waiting children right here in our country!”

CELESTE: Because it knew it was being pursued by the troll that has been bugging me for years. Look at the past troll “Emeraldcty1″ That person was bashing all sorts of animals, esp. Chickens and other Fowl, s/he got into bashing agricultural figures and preservatives, and gays also, in the same mean-spirited way. Sounds like a very vulgar person, that most people might be inclined to think it was a man-chicken, and a very ugly,lonely, sick chicken to boot. Boy does she got everyone fooled. She thinks she is helping everyone by livening up the newsgroup. Or perhaps she is screaming out for help. When her egg finally cracks then we will see who this is maybe, but what will have to happen for her to finally come to her end. It could be that all, or anyone one of us are in danger of this person, but so far her maddness seems to be mainly concentrated or vented on the Internet and alt.adoption. And me. And now this poor chicken.

 KLUCKSKI: Are you now telling me that you had nothing to do with the chicken crossing that road?! That’s disgusting. How can you people live with yourselves? You probably eat eggs, too. Don’t blame me that MY chicken crossed the road. That was a long time ago and how was  I to know what awaited that chicken on the other side of the road? I know better now and I insist that, now that YOUR chicken has crossed the road (no thanks to you people), you have no alternative morally other than to invite all similarly situated chickens to join her, and you, inperpetuity, on this side of the road. I am totally disgusted by your obvious insecurity.

 linda_mom2five: The chicken courageously crossed the road, in spite ofall the court whores who tried to stop her, so she could give her chicksan inappropriate greasy food — FRIED EGGS! That’s right! FRIED EGGS!She did it right in front of the whores. Then, realizing howcannabilistic it was, she had a psychotic chicken episode. I supposethis is the kind of chicken you all want to eat.


FRIED CHICKEN6 cups buttermilk

1/4 c. +1 T. kosher salt

2 chickens that didn’t make it across the road

3 C. all purpose flour

1 T. fresh ground pepper

1 tsp. cayenne pepper

2 T, baking powder

2 lbs. vegetable shortening

1/4 C. bacon drippings (optional)

Combine buttermilk and 1 T. of salt. Coat chicken pieces, cover and refrigerate for 2 hours.

Combine flour and remaining salt, the peppers and baking powder in a large brown paper bag. Shake vigorously.

Add chicken pieces, one by one, in the paper bag and shake to coat; place on clean plate. Heat vegetable shortening and bacon drippings in

2 cast iron skillets. Bring shortening to 375 degrees F. Fry chicken until coating is dark golden, 10 to 14 minutes, and turn and cook another 10 to 14 minutes. Drain on brown paper bags or paper towels.

Serve warm.

 THE A.A CHICKEN: (flapping wings madly as it avoids Don’s ATV)


Thanks to Steve White and Jim Hamilton for compiling and retrieving.


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Bastard Nation’s Sample Resolution Against Vetoes and Other Restrictions

Any political organization seeking to enact true open records legislation should be very clear with both their constituents and the legislators they work with about what the essential provisions of the proposed bill are. Any modification or deletion of the essential provisions of a bill should be immediate cause to have the bill killed.

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